Cringing through the 2nd half of Thunderdome

[Toe Cutter]

Sorry Uncle... I enjoy your posts the most on this board.... but I gotta do it.


As far as filmmaking and storytelling go, the second half of Thunderdome contains the weakest moments in the trilogy. I'll list some of my least favorite now:


1) Things are going pretty well in Thunderdome. It reaches it's height, and extreme lows in the Thunderdome sequence though. From the moment Max decides NOT to kill Blaster (a monster that would've killed him in a second, had Mlaster ordered it), the movie takes a depressing turn for the worst. Not only does he not got his vehicle and weapons back, but he shows behavior unlike the post-MM Max we have grown to love. Don't believe me? Look at the scene in RW where Max brings Nathan into the compoud, half dead. And that googly eyed guy asks Max, "There was a woman..." And Max, looking slightly indifferent and rushed says, "She's dead." That's the emotion he would've shown Blaster. A quick kill.... no eye contact.... move on.


I don't know... maybe I'm being harsh. But for me, the film goes downhill from there.


Let's continue, shall we.


2) From the moment the girl who finds Max returns home and lets out that god-awful, "aaaaaa AHHHHHHH" call.... I cringe. Because then all those cute, Walt Disney-style, mop-headed, kids come running out and, perhaps, the worst score I have ever heard blasts from the speakers. In fact, that score kills a lot of scenes from then on out. It's the type of score Steven Speilberg would've used if he directed a Max movie. It has so much wonder in it, it kills me.


3) Granted, there are some cool scenes here. Max's "Mr. Dead" quote is priceless. Him punching out the girl is great.... the way he hesistates first..... then his hand becomes a fist.... and BLAMMO. (I know, I'm an idiot). But once the kids all start speaking in that horrible dialect about Tomorrow-morrow land........ I cringe.


4) Going back for "Master the midget" never makes any sense. Max's explantion? "There's a little guy there who has the knowing of a lot of things." Really? Then how come Blaster does NOTHING for them? He barely even opens his mouth after they rescue him! All he does it take Max's seat on the plane in the end. It seems to me like the only reason they go back to Bartertown is so we can see one of the worse-staged "fight" scenes in any Max movie. I felt about this scene the way I felt when I saw the young Anakin blasting the bad guys in the climax of Star Wars: Episode One. It's that whole feeling of, "Why did they make this so cute?" Young Anakin going, "Cooooooool. What does THIS button do?!?" He pushes a button and a missle takes out four space ships. "Cooooooool! Blasto! Neato! Zoinks!" Ughhhh.


Seeing those kids swinging around and kicking people in the faces..... cringe. Seeing Max repeatedly get knocked down in the mud, get up and shake his head back and forth..... cringe. ( I kept waiting for little tweaty birds to appear around his head). Not to mention Ironbar.... one of the least convincing badguys I have ever seen. Wez could have this short runt for breakfast.


5) The pots and pans. No more with the pots and pans. Please! Having a character hit another character in the head with a pot is not called action. It's called slapstick. And what is slapstick doing in the climax of a Mad Max movie???


Think about this: In the climax for MM, Max drives the black on black Interceptor. In the climax for RW, he drives the tractor trailor. In the climax for Thunderdome he drives........ drum roll please........ A - cow - patterned - dune - buggy.


Say it with me.


Max drives a - cow - patterned - dune - buggy.


Again.


Max drives a - cow - patterned - dune - buggy.


(turns and walks away..... footsteps echoing on the floor...... the crowd sits, stunned, open mouthed.)


(and then Uncle Entity takes the stage, lifting up the microphone where Dennis dropped it)


- Dennis

[jmu2000]

I have to admit that I cannot help but smirk widely especially at the Underworld fight sequence. Here in the UK the scene resembles an Ealing Comedy Farce scene.


And how come Savannah suddenly decides to turn into the Aussie equivilent of some sort of Zena Warrior Princess? A complete contrast from earlier, and the other kids reactions to strange situations when they have been raised in isolation all their lives, it just doesn't add up! Still makes me laugh though.


However the final sequence with the haunting sight of the ruined Sydney with all its familiar landmarks sttil remains for me as breathtaking and stunning as the day I first saw it all those years ago. IMHO one of the best 'result of war' scenes I have ever seen with familiar landmarks* and sights in ruins though the futility of war.


(* Familiar from a seen them on the telly point of view, Never been to Australia! Maybe one day!)

[Uncle Entity]

I take the stage, lifting up the microphone where Dennis dropped it ( I don't know if you know, but I'm a rock singer - not joking!)


Max drives a - cow - patterned - dune - buggy.


Max drives a - cow - patterned - dune - buggy.


Max drives a - cow - patterned - dune - buggy.


For Christ sake, I could repeat it MILLION of TIMES, because that fukkin' CAR really RULES !!!!!! It's a friggin' awesome piece of sh*tty ART !!!!!! wonderfully CAMPY High-Octane JEWEL !!!!!!!! I COULD KILL SOMEONE to drive the cow car ONE TIME in my life - just ONE HELL OF TIME in my life.


Max drives a - cow - patterned - dune - buggy.


Anyway, it's the MOO CAR, not the COW CAR. I'm sorry, don't type wrong the name.


As for the rest:


THe disney soundtrack:


MICHAEL JARRE is the best composer along DANNY ELFMAN and ENNIO MORRICONE. THUNDERDOME score is universally valued as one of his BEST works. The music during the Crack In The Earth sequence was magical - frizzante (allegro) but at the same time nostalgic - kind of melanchonic.


THe Crack In The Earth sequence:


There are no words to describe how it is beautiful. Yo can taste the "isolation", and something wrong going on - the kids created a sort of frightening paradise with no past or future, and a wacko frightening religion. Frankly, the broken english was the masterstroke of the whole movie, and the Kids were pronuncing a lot of four letter words - quite provoking!


The UNDERWORLD sequence:


Mad Max is NOT Rambo. Mad Max is not... Steven Segal. From an "hero" perspective, Mad Max is an everyman with quick reflexes, resilience, driving abilities and a bit of strenght more than the known common levels.


He falls like me and you. He can be embarassing like me and you. That point in the movie showed how much Max is HUMAN. I Imagine a bunch of Mad Max fans in pure Crack In The Earth-style crying: "You're the ROAD WARRIOR, you're the ROAD WARRIOR..."


And Max : " Ehm... I'm not the ROAD WARRIOR. And there is no Tomorrow morrow land. I'm the guy who keeps Mr.Dead in his pocket... shut up, trekkies !!!!!!! "


Hhahahahahahah


IRONBAR:


I doubt Wex can kill the fukkin' bastard... because Ironbar is UNSTOPPABLE.


THE CHILDREN:


If the Dogs of War CAN'T KILL the FERAL KID during the MM2 chase scene, well... no wonder if the GUARDSMEN can't kill the children during the MM3 chase scene. SCROOLOOSE is by far a fukkin' tough guy... with camaleontic skills. Dangerous.


The movie is magic.





Now I describe you a ridiculous scene:


A guy from a gyrocopter left to fall a snake - the snake hit a Marauder on the helmet - the Marauder (supposed to be a tough guy) was so scared by the snake... to the point he killed the fellow. The car suddenly disbanded. The way in which the sequence was filmed was... EMBARASSING! But I love it. It's cheesy, it's very cheesy and un-realistic, but I love it!


I win.


Nothing of personal

[Uncle Entity]

And how come Savannah suddenly decides to turn into the Aussie equivilent of some sort of Zena Warrior Princess? A complete contrast from earlier, and the other kids reactions to strange situations when they have been raised in isolation all their lives, it just doesn't add up! Still makes me laugh though.


WRONG! Savannah was a tracker. She was experienced in the use of "Primitive weapons". He dared to attack Max in the Crack In The Earth... 'member ?


The kids reacted to Bartertown reality with wonder. It was realistic. For example, when Pig-Killer silenced Master...Eddie tryied to silence him too... with the WRONG finger. That's why it was a new gesture for him.


MASTER point:


Max knew Master was good. Max knew Master was a smart-ass... Max worked for a while in Underworld, don't forget it.


At the very end, when the Transaviar started to fly, Master congedated Max with a "soldier gesture" - It defined the character in my book forever. That's great CINEMA!


UNDERWORLD point:


It was supposed to be an ADVENTURE well-staged fight. Just an intro to Bartertown's annihilation. It worked well. It was well-filmed.


In ROAD WARRIOR, the fight in the Refinery (when Max stole the rig and brought it to the Refinery) was pretty cartoonish.


But I repeat it, I LOVE ROAD WARRIOR. And BEYOND THUNDERDOME was the perfect sequel to it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Uncle Entity]

Anyway, Dannis:


I'm not only a rocker. I wrote about 20 "alternative" and experimental sci-fi tales and several subjects for movies.


Who knows? Maybe you could enjoy some ideas of mine. Never met a director...

[nelson]

hey toe cutter dont forget that when Nathan askes max what happened he said, " it was quick." Showing a little compassion but still with the detached unemotional expression

[Toe Cutter]

Well, Uncle... I gotta hand it to you... your passion is contagious. Even though this isn't a debate, I can't argue with you because, well...... I'm just like you. I adore these movies to no end. I just like nitpicking. It's the stuff these Discussion Boards thrive on. (don't get me started on ALIENS. I've seen that film more than anyone living today)


Still, your attention to detail on Thunderdome is inspiring. Even though I still don't agree with most of your points, it's nice to see the underdog movie of the trilogy have such strong fan support.


I think it was always the accepted quota to like The Road Warrior the most. But these past few months, the first film has slowly risen to become my favorite. It's just the one film that has all the ingredients.


But I think the reason why I like the orginal film the best, is probably because it's more of a straight forward thriller..... more of a revenge story. The other films are great to me when they focus on the elements that made the first film great. IE: the car chases, the badass bruavara of Max, how quiet he has become, how he responds to new faces.


The first film also lacked a lot of the camp of the two sequels. Mind you, the camp is great. But if I HAD to choose...... I'd always leave the camp behind.


So now, to be fair, let me list some of the rather campy moments in Road Warrior. Granted, these don't make me cringe as much as Thunderdome's campy moments do.... but I still cringe. And, mind you again, I ONLY cringe b/c these movies are so beloved to me and I take them so damn seriously.


1) A big one is definitely the Gyrocaptain's many antics. Uncle, you have menioned repeatedly the scene where he gets shot down and how goofy it looks. I cringe when I see that one shot of him leaning in towards the camera with his mouth open in a big "WHOOOOOOO" face. I swear, I'm sort of rooting for the marauders to just shoot that damn, stupid looking helicopter out of the sky already.


2) Miller has a thing for undercranking the camera to make things appear as if they are moving faster. He does it only a few times in MM (when Toecutter sits in the back of the pick-up truck with Knightrider's coffin and his riders zoom past him). But in RW he does it a couple times..... and it's very obvious and doesn't look so good.


One example is when Max flees the compoud after receiving his supplies and fuel. Wez is getting his head shaved and the Interceptor blows by the gang. As the gangs give chase, the film speed revs up and it looks sort of corny.


Another example is when the Feral Kid succeeds in causing "boomerang chaos." He does that horrible back flip into the fox hole. And if you look closely, you can see that it's sped up. It almost makes it look computery.


3) Funny, over the years I have developed a love/hate relationship with the Gyrocaptain. Meaning, I HATE to LOVE him. Haha. So I don't really mind when he drops the snake on the guy. B/c I understand his relationship with the snakes. It'd be like Max having to sic his dog on someone, knowing it would kill the dog. But, I never bought into the whole "buddy" thing between the Gyrocaptain and Max. I don't mind when he tries to convince Max to stay and fight, ("You're making a mistake! You're breaking up a wonderul team!"). But I DO cringe when Max is half dead, laying on the copter, and the Gyrocaptain leans into the frame, grins and says, in slow-motion, something like, "Welcome back..... paaaaartner."


Ughhh. Poor Max. Not only has he lost his car, his dog, and all his supplies..... but fate has now forced him to be at the mercy of the Gyrocaptain. Poor guy.


Coming Soon: Dennis actually describes some of his favorite moments in Thunderdome.


- Dennis

[batmax5]

I also take these movies very seriously, despite the fact that the main premise of Road Warrior is the hunt for "gazzoline" when maybe they would be better off looking for food other than Dinky-Di.


I am all for nit-picking, but in defense of the snake throwing scene, I thought (without rewatching the movie) that we coulad actually see the snake bite the guy causing him to shoot the driver, and that he didn't just panic and shoot the driver out of fear.


And regarding speeding up the film, watching the scenes that are obviously sped up doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as the one scene they forgot to speed up. There is one fairly long shot of the entire Humungous fleet supposedly giving chase at about 10 MPH! My guess is that they told the drivers to go slow thinking the film would be sped up and it wasn't.


My scary 71 Cutlass and I were in a student film for a friend of mine. The scene was supposed to show me accelerating very fast, but when I did the camera couldn't keep up with me. We had to reshoot the scene with me only driving at half throttle, and it came out much better on film.


Here is a pic of my 71 Cutlass. My hobby is making real world scary battle vehicles loosely based on vehicles from The Road Warrior:

[batmax5]

Toe Cutter,


I forgot to add: "Will somebody wake up Hicks?"


Batmax

[Toe Cutter]

Quote: Originally posted by batmax5 on 02 November 2002






Toe Cutter,


I forgot to add: "Will somebody wake up Hicks?"


Batmax

(Shutters at the quote from ALIENS)


Seriously, Batmax...... don't get me started. I'll go on for days about my love for ALIENS. (runs from the office shrieking)


- Dennis