You're not kidding?

[dcampbell007]

You forgot about Toecutter? What about his story or background? You said he was the evilest of the three, and gave him a 13 while giving Bubba an 11 and Johnny an 8. Somehow, Mudguts only got a 6. You seem to think the movie is about forces and circumstances making Max the most bad ass of them all. Even more bad ass than the scum he exterminates. And the yellow interceptor indicated that he was too chicken shit to confront his own inner demons until the very end. The movie begs the question: what separates man from beast? Not much. Sort of like a futuristic, grown-up version of Lord of the Flies. Ultimately, Max is supposedly the bad one despite the fact the bikers slaughtered his entire family.

[MWFV8]

Actually right from the opening scene we see that Max is far from 'chicken shit' when he drives head on toward Nightrider and causes him to lose his nerve.

This is a clear statement to show us how capable Max is.

What separates Max from the bikers is his motivation being justice and this never changes, however once he looses his comrades and family he goes from police officer to vigilante (signified by changing to BoB) which enables him to take an eye for an eye - to go mad.

This does not make him evil, he is far from it, he's just ruthless and mercenary. He still has his morals intact, he just sheds the emotional and occupational ties that were stopping him administer the level of justice needed.

This fundamental behaviour is reinforced in both RoadWarrior and Thunderdome where, despite the personal danger to himself, Max struggles to walk away from people who need his help.

[zykotec]

Actually right from the opening scene we see that Max is far from 'chicken shit' when he drives head on toward Nightrider and causes him to lose his nerve.

This is a clear statement to show us how capable Max is.

What separates Max from the bikers is his motivation being justice and this never changes, however once he looses his comrades and family he goes from police officer to vigilante (signified by changing to BoB) which enables him to take an eye for an eye - to go mad.

This does not make him evil, he is far from it, he's just ruthless and mercenary. He still has his morals intact, he just sheds the emotional and occupational ties that were stopping him administer the level of justice needed.

This fundamental behaviour is reinforced in both RoadWarrior and Thunderdome where, despite the personal danger to himself, Max struggles to walk away from people who need his help.

Way better explained than what I wrote. Max is never really evil, he just has a really dirty job, which he is good at, and that is ultimately the reason his family gets killed, and why he goes mad. Would say he's more intimidating in the end than most of the bikers. OK, if youre a good guy he may not wanna hurt you, but you would't pick a fight with him. I'll stop beating this dead horse now, cause the troll never really stops being hungry.

[dcampbell007]

Actually right from the opening scene we see that Max is far from 'chicken shit' when he drives head on toward Nightrider and causes him to lose his nerve.

This is a clear statement to show us how capable Max is.

What separates Max from the bikers is his motivation being justice and this never changes, however once he looses his comrades and family he goes from police officer to vigilante (signified by changing to BoB) which enables him to take an eye for an eye - to go mad.

This does not make him evil, he is far from it, he's just ruthless and mercenary. He still has his morals intact, he just sheds the emotional and occupational ties that were stopping him administer the level of justice needed.

This fundamental behaviour is reinforced in both RoadWarrior and Thunderdome where, despite the personal danger to himself, Max struggles to walk away from people who need his help.

Way better explained than what I wrote. Max is never really evil, he just has a really dirty job, which he is good at, and that is ultimately the reason his family gets killed, and why he goes mad. Would say he's more intimidating in the end than most of the bikers. OK, if youre a good guy he may not wanna hurt you, but you would't pick a fight with him. I'll stop beating this dead horse now, cause the troll never really stops being hungry.

Who are you calling a troll, peckerwood? Now will you answer me straight? Explain why you give Toecutter a 13, Bubba an 11, Johnny an 8, and somebody like Mudguts only a 6.

[bike]

Confucius say, he who listen to rant-er.......is rant-ee

[Bubba Fat]

To me Toecutter was a henchman to the Armalite gangs and Bubba has been sent in order to assist and keep a watch on Toecutter. Its pretty clearly showed in the movie that Bubba has no respect for the rest of the gang, especially for the drug addicted Johnny (they look like foolish kids to him). Toecutter does not really know what position Bubba really has and why he has been sent by the Armalites. I think this is why he woudn't allow Bubba to take over.

As Bubba shot Max in the knee instead of in the head, he didn't follow Toecutter's plan to eliminate Max with one shot and by this, revealed his real intentions: torturing and showing how skilled he is. This was to me an atempt to take over, defying Toecutter which shows that he saw himself as the leader and the better skilled guy.

[zykotec]

Who are you calling a troll, peckerwood? Now will you answer me straight? Explain why you give Toecutter a 13, Bubba an 11, Johnny an 8, and somebody like Mudguts only a 6.

I advice you to watch the movie again when you grow up, and see if you understand it better....

I have to say as I've never read any of the books and I only analyze the movie based on my own recollection of it (haven't watched it in a year) there's a chance that Bubba fat is right.
About that 1-15 point score thingy, I just wrote something as I wrote it , without much thought, I completely forgot the fact that any point score under 7 would be hard to achieve, as 8 would be a median, and probably where most people would end up.
What you (dcampervan007) still fail to understand is that this is not just a revenge movie, it's not a serial killer movie, it does not dwell on each subjects psykological profile, and I guess most of the characters are made up with a lot of the different actors own feelings about their character.
It is about a warrior named MAX, who goes 'mad' , and becomes a biker killing maniac. face it, how many people are killed in this movie, Nightrider kills one or two offscreen, Jonny the boy nearly kills Goose, and then Jessie and sprog (not really sure about Jessie, that conversation between the doctors confuse me a bit, but suffice to say, she probably won't make it very long if she's still alive) All the other people are killed by Max as far as we know. The first time we see him it looks like he even looks forward to it, not to mention his look when the nightriders goes up into flames. As for him not facing his dark side, I think the name on the yellow interceptor proves opposite. But it's quite obvious that he does not like this half of himself, and that he tries to escape it. Probaby because he has become a family man, and he sees the way the bikers(and others )live. The others , like Goose and Roop, have other way's to deal with their conscience, Goose brags ,drinks and jokes, and Roop hates,yells etc., but Max has to try and be a caring family man, and that probably keeps him together enough to see what he is becoming.
And, about Bubba, he really wants to avenge The Nightrider, which means he really cares that he dies, meaning he's not really only evil. The bikers gang acts like sort of a surrogat family for it's members, but as a wolf pack, there is only one leader, and Bubba wouldn't dare fighting with TC. TC quite coldly plans revenge over time, and he sees his opponent clearer than Bubba, who gives Max one chance to much when he tries to kill him slowly, TC knew better, but never got the chance to tell Bubba...Still, he's smarter and obviously more badass.

Basically, if you want to know who the bikers are, watch what happens to Max. And listen to Pappagallo in Road Warrior when he talks to Max. If that still doesn't explain it for you, don't ever watch a Michael Bay movie....You'll keep yourself awake for weeks trying to figure out what's wrong with Blackout, and whose the more evil of the combiners, and there really will be no explanation ever....

ANd BTW, if any member who starts topics debating the other members' 'failing' to discuss things his(or her) way, or start topics he(or she) wants to read, and even starts arguments based on her(or his) deliberate misunderstandings of other peoples posts (like disagreeing because he(or she) didn't read teh whole post, or just find a new thing in that post to repeat in the way of a question,or something they think the other member will reacdt negative to being brought up, for no other reason than making an argument , I call that person a Troll, who wouldn't....
And you can't say I called you a troll( because I just said I'd stop feeding the troll, and there are other members who have contributed to this thread ,allthough in a more positive, and productive way than the troll) But if you feel that you in some way or another is the one startign arguments for no other reason than having an argument, I guess you are free to call yourself one

And, a pecker-wood, isn't that just as offensive as me callin you an eater-ant or a fish-crab....

And to MFV8 up there, I disagree in the fact that Max is any less evil than the bikes based on him keeping his morals, he just has another 'set of morals' than the bikers, and he's not part of any flock-mentality that can change that (not before RW when he adapts to the compounds people's set of morals (who'd rather burn people alive than share their gas ) The bikers never kill anyone in the movie for no reason , they even let the Impala driver live, the Nightrider killed to escape, Goose beat the shit out of Jonny before getting burned, etc.

[Dragonforce]

Jesus! I'm sure there are worse things in life than being called a "Troll".....what is this?.....Daycare?

[MWFV8]

And to MFV8 up there, I disagree in the fact that Max is any less evil than the bikes based on him keeping his morals, he just has another 'set of morals' than the bikers, and he's not part of any flock-mentality that can change that (not before RW when he adapts to the compounds people's set of morals (who'd rather burn people alive than share their gas ) The bikers never kill anyone in the movie for no reason , they even let the Impala driver live, the Nightrider killed to escape, Goose beat the shit out of Jonny before getting burned, etc.

Fair point and I respect your view.

I've always thought of the dark side of Max something we can all relate too. Deep down we all have an animal instinct for revenge and justice toward those that wrong us. In the case of Mad Max we get to see someone empowered talent and circumstance to get that revenge.

It's a genre of story telling that was reflected in the American Death Wish movies, where Charles Bronsons character would have their life torn apart by criminals in a dystopia until they hit rock bottom. Once at rock bottom the law means nothing and that (combined with secretly being a badass) frees them to seek their revenge. As an audience we enjoy vigilante justice because we feel that our justice systems are morally limited and allow crime to escalate. This is laid out bare in Mad Max when Johnny The Boy walks free despite being caught red handed at a rape scene, which in turn leads to Johnny murdering Goose.

Perhaps revenge is inherently evil, it is one of the seven deadly sins. Perhaps the red mist of revenge turns a very capable good person into a very capable evil person and Mad Max shows this.

But lets not forget that the bikers violently terrorise, abuse and rape people with absolutely no reason whatsoever. Surely this itself makes them far more evil people?

[zykotec]

Yes i agree, the bikers are not really nice people, but in their mind I think they don't see it that way, but if they do, I think they would still rather follow their leader than being alone. And that again means they are afraid of being left out, which is probably one of the reasons they joined in the first place. At some point they have been (or feel like they have ) rejected by society, and that's how they justify their actions against society. That's also why I'd say TC is the most evil character in this movie, cause he uses their weakness against them to keep the gang going. When it comes to being crazy and dangerous, just look at the Nightrider, he's completely lost it, he probably knows this is going to end bad, he even tries to hit a child in the middle of the road and he don't care about nothing any more, but still, he's afraid of Max when he turns up....what does that tell you about Max....