Unnecessary war

[Redd4]

mahenoguy, I'm mostly a reluctant agnostic. I really wish I had the faith, and I envy people who do, but for some reason I can't say "I believe in God". Which is odd, because I will thank God when things go right for me, actually look up and mouthe a quiet "thank you". Am I just hedging my bets? And why do I look up? It's said He can tell if you're for real or not. Hopefully He knows me better than I do. If He's there .
The bra and panty thing, I think they should both be singular. Down with panties!

[Dinki Di]

Our governments don't "get" the Middle East. They seem to think you can whack the top dog or regime and those countries will immediately start thinking and operating like ours. After Iran, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and now Syria they still seem to think they can install some pro-Western group in charge and not see the vacuum being filled by tribal warfare regardless. The Russians knew Afghanistan was a lost cause without occupation in the 80s, and they warned us.

After all those failures - and they really kind of are if you look back at Afghanistan in the 50s and 60s compared to now, same with Iran (it looked like the West, a far cry from burkas and militants), and some of the others - it's getting hard to believe they still haven't figured it out. I don't blame the troops for that, they did their jobs and the cause was just when you look at what some of those regimes have done. But you could argue everything we've done has only paved the way for the real crazies to ride into town. It's an interesting fact ME countries and culture just isn't geared to care about democracy - who's gonna fight for it when we've gone, when the religion/culture discourages concern in who is ruling in what way, so long as it meets the requirements of the Koran. And our governments still don't figure suddenly importing millions of refugees from areas in the world that have that different culture isn't going to cause problems, cultural and economic.

Like I said I'm finding it hard to believe, more so every day, that our leaders really are that dumb. Perhaps the situation we have now is good for the powers that be. They have a terrifying bogeyman to focus the public's fear and anger on, and they have people on the move that could be exploited as cheap and easy labor, and they have populations that kind of don't want to believe they might actually be under threat or that not all people can automatically just "get along" in this situation. The way it's been handled in Europe is beyond logical comprehension - at best a display of abject idiocy and at worst a complete disregard for the concerns of the native population. Sections of the ME are now destabilized. There are people and organizations who benefit from this, but the cost to everyone else, maybe even the world at large now, is criminal.

There's so many things wrong with this picture. Being dependent on oil from the ME and therefore being bound up with their politics and ideology is one. The complacency of younger generations toward freedom is another - as if you don't have to win and fight hard (and sometimes kill) for that shit. The tolerance of intolerant ideologies is a fine wire to walk, governments are afraid and want to appease instead of doing the more difficult but sensible thing of weeding out what's incompatible and expelling what's dangerous - maintaining the beliefs of a free an open society, basically. A lot of people still live in some bubble where until the scope of the problem starts to affect them, they don't give a shit or pretend there isn't a problem. I don't think the governments give a shit either. They like selling weapons to whoever, they like cheap oil, they like cheap labor, and they like the crowd looking the other way. None of it is laying the foundations for a decent future.

Now I just heard Australia's govt. just passed an anti-blasphemy law of sorts, nobody can criticize religion or wear anything or say anything with a message that might cause someone to "feel marginalized" - is this the direction we're really going in? Fucking incredible.

Went off topic a bit there but it's all interconnected, this desire to involve ourselves with the ME and also to make sure we don't upset the ME or people from it even at our own expense... we'd be better off not dealing with them at all and finding better, cleaner alternatives to what they offer.

I'm reminded of the opening montage of Mad Max 2 when I think about what my country (UK) did in the 70s to try to stave off the economic implications of rising fuel prices and recession on the infrastructure, and they did it by making deals with the Saudis who now do whatever they like over here, including opening faith schools where they've been caught teaching ideological extremism. We need to break the dependence and the "special relationship" capitulation or we can look forward to more of this crap and worse. Economics/debt is another can of worms though, I'm sure that'll come to call eventually as well.

[TheDarkOne#1]

It's incredibly frustrating to say the least. People overhere live with their heads in the clouds, dreaming because reality is too hard. Our politicians are mostly money grabbing fools. The justice system is a joke. Hardened criminals, even know terrorism participants get lenient sentences. Taxes are higher than ever. People are social media addicted zombies. I could go on for days. But i have to be carefull with what i write online, could be arrested for spreading hatespeech.

Maybe i'm becoming too cynical as i get older.

[MWFV8]

Regardless of how the current situation may be, the statistics are showing that political parties are becoming increasingly juxtaposed in their views and that's truly scary. There's no centre-left or centre-right anymore and few moderates. We've got millions aggressively championing highly liberal or conservative messages. This is where instability breeds.

[mahenoguy]

What actually frightens me most MWFV8 , is that extreme Left and right divides in politics , and fierce nationalism , usually stem from periods of prolonged poverty . But here we are , more affluent than we have ever been ( measured in material wealth of coarse ) and yet millions are more than eager to draw lines in the sand . It is perhaps a mental hangover from the past , but our distinctly hemispherical brains love to divide things in two . black & white....left and right.....we have infinitely more in common that what separates us all , but we are prepared to suspend all recognition and focus only the differences. That , combined with allowing economics to dictate social policy , rather than reason or logic , has put the powers that be in the position of being legally obliged to the dollar , not the people . If economics make no allowances for humanity....what chance does any other living thing on this planet stand.
we have been in precarious positions before as a species , but the driving factors this time are a little different , to the point that any solution we have come up with in the past is now largely irrelevant . Good luck humanity....I think we're gonna need it.

[MWFV8]

What actually frightens me most MWFV8 , is that extreme Left and right divides in politics , and fierce nationalism , usually stem from periods of prolonged poverty . But here we are , more affluent than we have ever been ( measured in material wealth of coarse ) and yet millions are more than eager to draw lines in the sand.

Well, I guess that's mainly down to standards of living going up while inequality soars. There are rich businessmen in some American cities genuinely scared there's going to be some form of revolution. Western society is becoming increasingly aware it lives in a plutocracy.